As Green Bay Packers general manager Ted Thompson sat patiently, presumably waiting for Tramon Williams to return home at a lower price after exploring potentially greener pastures, Williams signed with Cleveland for 3 years and $21 million.
Now the Packers are a man short at outside cornerback. Even though Williams turned 32 on Monday, he was coming off one of his better seasons and was thought to have plenty left in the tank to contribute to another Packers run at the Super Bowl.
That leaves Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde and Demetri Goodson as the front-runners to replace Williams on the outside. Hayward seems better suited for the slot. Hyde lacks the speed to be a true outside corner. And Goodson is a converted basketball player who barely made the 53-man roster out of training camp.
The Trust in Ted mantra is about to be tested.
It hasn’t been reported yet how much of Williams’ deal is guaranteed, but 3 years/$21 million is a lot of cash for a 32-year-old corner. But the Packers have plenty of salary cap space. It seems like if Thompson would have made a more aggressive push to bring Williams back, the Packers could’ve got him.
What exactly is Ted saving all that cap space for? Odds are he doesn’t have a different major free-agent signing up his sleeve. The Packers are also in decent salary cap shape for next offseason as the contracts for players like Mike Daniels come due.
Save for a four-minute meltdown in Seattle, the Packers were the best team in the NFL last season. Why not bring back one of the key veteran leaders on an improved defense for another run? Even if Thompson brought Williams back, he still could have drafted a corner and groomed him for 2016 or 2017.
Instead, Thompson sat back, likely waiting for Williams to come crawling back to Green Bay once he realized the market for his talent wasn’t what he thought it was. In this case Thompson was wrong, and now Williams is gone.
But Thompson sitting back and waiting for Williams instead of going out and getting him isn’t the only example of dilly-dallying at the cornerback position. Remember Jumal Rolle? He signed with Houston from the Packers’ practice squad back in October. Rolle was sitting on the practice squad even though the Packers had an open spot on the 53-man roster for two weeks.
According to Pete Dougherty of the Green Bay Press-Gazette, Rolle bolted for Houston instead of accepting the Packers matching offer because he was sick of Green Bay jerking him around. With the Texans, Rolle had three interceptions in 10 games.
After a strong start to free agency that saw Thompson bring back Randall Cobb and Bryan Bulaga at below-market deals, watching Williams sign elsewhere after Davon House left for Jacksonville left fans a bit grumpy.
Ten months from now, will Thompson’s handling of the cornerback position be viewed as a complete botch in the realm of what he did at backup quarterback in 2013? Or will the Trust in Ted Mantra be re-affirmed once again, like it was in 2010 when an undrafted rookie former wide receiver turned cornerback named Sam Shields started as the Packers’ nickel corner and played an important role in helping the Packers win the Super Bowl?
If you need yet another reason to Trust in Ted, look no further than Tramon Williams himself. Williams was an undrafted player signed off another team’s practice squad. He went on to a caree in Green Bay that will land him in the Packers’ hall of fame.
To replace Tramon Williams, all Thompson has to do is, well, find another Tramon Williams.
It might seem like Thompson is dilly-dallying at the moment, but he’s probably hard at work finding the next cornerback who will overperform expectations. At least, I hope that’s what he’s doing…——————
Adam Czech is a a freelance sports reporter living in the Twin Cities and a proud supporter of American corn farmers. When not working, Adam is usually writing about, thinking about or worrying about the Packers. Follow Adam on Twitter. Twitter .
121 thoughts on “Tentative Ted: Will Thompson’s dilly-dallying at CB cost the Packers?”
As a result of Williams signing with Cleveland drafting a CB is now a priority rather than a pick for depth. I would like to have Williams back but not for $7 mil per year, especially over 3 years, although I don’t know how much is guaranteed. With the loss of Rolle, House and Williams, CB is no longer a position of strength for the Packers. TT should sign an experienced FA corner if there are any left and probably needs to use an early round pick to get a rookie with the chance to be a starter. This diminishes our opportunity to focus on ILB and DL in the draft. Adam, I do agree with your basic question, what or who is TT sitting on all that cap space for? Thanks, Since ’61
“I do agree with your basic question, what or who is TT sitting on all that cap space for?”
Just because you have $5 in your pocket doesn’t mean you need to overpay for a candy bar just to spend it.
What contracts come up in 2016? Many of us were criticizing TT last year for his stinginess with his bolus of cap money…until Peppers was cut and he made that key signing. It also meant that the Packers kept Nelson, Cobb and Bulaga. There will still be some significant players to be cut as teams try to make their caps work and sign their rookies. Patience…the offseason isn’t made in one day or one transaction.
If that candy bar is a Kit Kat you definitely spend that $5. Kit Kat’s are the best.
Try the Canadian dark chocolate ones. And even the milk chocolate Canadian ones are better than what we get here.
They’re exactly the same, they just seem better because everything else in Canada sucks so bad.
I just read on another site what is ahead for the Packers, especially in 2017, Sitton and Lang will be up as will be Hyde, Lacy, Jones, and Hayward and Daniels next year. The most interesting parts was Cobbs, Nelsons, Shields and Bulaga’s contracts. They take huge leaps in this year and through 2017. It was reported the Packers will have $96.7 million on 17 players currently under contract, that’s a lot of the cap right there so you have to wonder how much Thompson will continue to roll over.
When was Peppers cut in 2014?
He was cut by the Bears during the 2014 offseason . He was a salary cap casualty.
I think it is still strong it just don’t got depth now! TT will draft a perimeter CB this year and most likely a slot cb as well. But I think Hayward can get the job done this year and Hyde/Goodson will cover the slot
Hayward is a slot corner. Goodson barely made the team in 2014 and only did so because he was a draft pick.
At first when I saw Williams had signed with the Browns to say I was irritated would be a understatement. But after a night to think about it, how much money was offered to Williams, you can hardly blame Thompson for this. I haven’t heard how much of that contract is guaranteed, but a 32 year old CB isn’t worth that much money unless your last name is Woodson. But with the Giant sized hole at ILB and the thought of Goodson as our dime CB, I think the need to sign someone in FA becomes greater with the loss of Williams.
I’d still take a peek at Brandon Spikes at ILB or Kendrick Ellis at DT, I think both could be signed fairly to “Cap Friendly” deals. I also think Ted should get Raji signed because if he bolts, Guion gets suspended for more games than people are planning on, the Packers would be counting on the draft to fill to many holes. Just my humble opinion guys. In Ted We Trust, In Ted We Trust, In Ted We Trust…..
Good point Nick, the Browns are a complete mess.Wasting a First Round Draft Pick On Johnny FootBall and Over paying for T Williams services made Thompson’s position more difficult. It will be interesting to see how Ted T attempts to address this issue.
The point is Thomson screwed around instead of signing Tramon in the first place. If it was AJ Hawk (2010) Thompson would have rolled over and given Tramon his checkbook. The first offer was 2/$8 million. It’s not the first time Ted has low-balled and over 30 veteran and won’t be the last.
The loss which irritates me the most is House. He had an upside, even when considering his injury history. Williams, arguably, played some of his best football in 2014. Age is a concern unless your last name is Woodson. Tramon Williams is no Charles Woodson…on the field or off. Since “61 is right about draft priorities changing. A CB may be the first choice for GB in the draft.
By your fifth year, upside should have been reached. House ws a tease in Green Bay. When he wasn’t injured, he was a so-so player, never putting together a string of good games.
I love Charles Woodson, but Joe Whitt at one point called Tramon cover CB, cover being the key. Remember, the future HOF’er Woodson eventually moved to slot corner in Green Bay and then safety.
Next thing you know, Raji will walk. There are many who will say, as with the departure of Tramon Williams, ‘Good riddance,” but that will be yet another hole in last year’s porous defense to fill. “A day late and a dollar short” Ted. Poor A-Rod! The Pack could average 50 points a game next season and still go 8 and 8..
Raji wasn’t even a part of last year’s defense. If he walks, it doesn’t create any more holes than they already had.
“Poor Dom Capers! He’ll be the next scapegoat.”
Last year and until about week 6 of the regular season this last fall Dom was King of the scapegoats…thankfully, Shawn Slocum saved him from that role.
Quibbling! We had a porous defense last year. Right? Given Guion’s legal and drug abuse problems, Raji’s leaving for another team would constitute another hole in our defense to fill. Right? Yes, the villagers were out to tar and feather Capers last season but settled for Slocum. Capers has gone to the head of the line to be next year’s sacrificial lamb. Perhaps the real problem, though, is higher up the food chain.
I have a Master’s degree in Quibbling… 😉
Another Capers’ apologist unnecessarily weighs in on a thread that has nothing to do Capers. We get it: The coach is always right. Whatever.
Good work by Thompson.
Hyde and Hayward are on the rise; not the case with Williams. Goodson will improve after a full season workout and training, plus I expect Thompson to add one or more backups to the mix through available free agents and the draft.
I think this is the correct way to think about it. If Tramon was that important to the defense, he would still be in GB. I don’t think TT would have let him swing with a “take-it-or-leave-it” deal on the table.
If Hayward is healthy, people are saying he’s capable of manning the outside. I think we all will be holding our breath with his injury history. That means that you need the “next man up” CB through the draft, FA, or UDFA.
They actually like Hyde a lot. Hayward, on the other hand, has not matched his excellent rookie season. There’s no guarantee Goodson will improve, either. Thompson offering 5.2 million a year proves he wanted tram on back, and that the trio you mentioned isn’t all that at cover corner. Though, Hyde is a very versatile and valuable player.
To portray Thompson as just cheap or even dilly-dallying is simple and fails to recognize that the ‘game’ is a business. House signed for 24.5 million in a state that doesn’t have a tax. House’s deal is just less per year than Brian Bulaga. Is House fair valued or over-paid? I know that Ted secured Sam Shields to a fairly large contract and people were impressed that the Packers stepped up and paid the man. The Packers and the coaches saw something. Those same front-office people and coaches let Davon House test the market and then declined to match the offer. Is Ted cheap or is House over-paid? We know that the team will step up and retain its key players but not in this case – why. As for Williams, only the Browns would pay him 21 million – enough said.
Fans make it sound like there is only one side to this business. Ted failed to do something and the guy left. House got promoted around by his agent and was picked up by a lower tier team for a dollar amount beyond what many other good teams were willing to pay. I don’t like to lose players to anyone but I wouldn’t overpay a guy just to play in the FA game. Sometimes guys leave because a desperate team is willing to pay them stupid money or as some say “jennings” coin. Sometimes you need to let guys leave so that there is room for others to grow. Either way, I wouldn’t call the Browns or the Jags well run teams.
I haven’t found anyone out there who has said that House’s contract was a good investment by the Jags. More than anything else, they’re crediting Jax’s need to maintain the league’s salary floor for a bloated contract for a guy who is all speculation and little production.
I’ve seen several FA recaps that have labeled the Jags signing of House as the worse deal in FA.
‘or as some say “jennings” coin.’
it should be “Jennings Jingle”
If House can stay healthy and that’s a big IF he is well worth the money. He has proven he can cover star receivers like Johnson,Jefferies, Bryant,Etc. so bottom line is Thompson is betting on his ability to stay healthy. Time will tell if he made the right choice! As for TW he was worth a 4 million a year 2 year deal and no more!
I have faith in Hayward to be the #2 perimeter guy and Hyde/Goodson can cover the slot
Well, Ted had a number, and we know he wasn’t going above that number. I get that, but I just wish it didn’t always feel like we were rebuilding one position or another every single year. Sometimes it’s OK to sign a vet (see: Peppers, Julius).
If your favorite team is only rebuilding one or two positions every year like the Packers, your team is in really good shape.
If your favorite team is not making the superbowl every year like the Packers, your team isn’t in really good shape.
Idiotic comment. Please name the team that is “making the superbowl every year.” If you can’t, stop watching football. Or at least stop posting really, really dumb comments.
Caruso, the reason it feels like that is because that’s the reality in the NFL. You are never going to have every position a strength coming into a season because of youth constantly replacing older veterans. The yearly NFL draft guarantees us constant change to the roster.
These positions of strength and weakness change on a yearly basis. We were talking about weakness at running back and safety for a few years now. With Eddie Lacy and Clinton Dix, I don’t hear that talk anymore. Hopefully next year inside linebacker will be a position of strength. Now our corners are suddenly a perceived weakness. I say let Ted Thompson do his magic. Year after year he provides all of us with a competitive team and always keeps up financially stable unlike Mike Sherman before him who was a spender and a failure at that. Trust in Ted.
Caruso – I understand how you feel but that is the reality of the NFL salary cap. Think of the cap as 100 chips. You have 100 chips to cover 22 positions, really 25 positions when you factor in your punter, place kicker and long snapper. How many chips do you want to spend on each of your 25 positions. The Packers (TT) have chosen to put most of their chips on their offense. And that makes sense when Aaron Rodgers is your QB and you re-sign Jordy and Cobb and Bulaga, etc… and a rules environment that favors the offense. The result is you have other positions that are undermanned or under chipped. For the Packers that has become the ILBs, the DLs and now the CBs. Some of TTs remaining chips will cover at least one of these positions, probably DL. Then you go into the draft for ILBs and a CB or 2. You need speed and durability in those positions and those factors favor younger players versus the 30+ year old players like T. Williams. At least that what I think TT is thinking but who knows, anything is possible. These situations always prove to me that the best thing to do is be patient and expect the unexpected, like signing Julius Peppers last season. Thanks, Since ’61
Except for WR TT has let the cupboard become bare at every position at one time or the other. You mentioned back-up QB. Certainly everyone remembers the debacle at S post Nick Collins. And ILB has been a crying need for years. We still have only one real OLB. And TT has never drafted a good DL. Raji was a one year wonder. He let Cullen Jenkins walk. When TT took the job of GM he immediately blew up the Pack’s OL. A decade later he has finally rebuilt it. We went years w/o a top RB following A Green and were told by TT/MM that RB didn’t matter anymore – hence M Lynch wasn’t worth a 3rd rd pick. TT is very reactive as opposed to proactive – he waits till the problem is glaring and then the Pack has to live with it for a few years till he gets it corrected. But, most fans seem to think he’s the greatest. I think he’s very lucky the best QB on the planet fell into his lap. W/o AROD there would have been no SB and TT/MM would have been fired long ago. But, hey, that’s just my opinion.
There is hope for MM, he started his first step, admitting he can’t call a play. Seattle deflated his balloon head and I think MM will be ok now. As far as Grandpa Teddy, were in trouble, if that head keeps growing it will pop soon. Ted, please listen to the fans and let us give you a winning defense. Stop looking for coal you can stick in your anus and squeeze out a diamond. Just once in awhile look for the diamond so we can win a sb…
You’re right about MM. That was the biggest pleasant surprise out of management in a long time. When he’s cruising in a game, his play calling was fine. But when he was up against good defenses or the stakes were high, he obviously played scared. Hopefully the new guy is better.
Play calling is always seen through the lens of the final score or the lens of the play result. The bottom line is that the Packers had a 12 point lead with less than 4 minutes to play and the defense choked on it. You want to continue to blame play calling that’s fine but championship defenses don’t blow 12 point leads in less than 4 minutes. If the score was 29-17 instead of 19-7 would that mean the play calling was better. Suppose the 12 point lead was 49-37 would that be good play calling. At what point does it become OK to give up a 12 point lead and not blame the play calling? The answer is never, because it’s ridiculous to blame blowing a 12 point lead in less than 4 minutes on the play calling, especially when we’re discussing what is supposed to be a playoff NFL defense. Thanks, Since ’61
Archie, put your pants back on, come out of the bedroom and have a look at NFL teams not named “Packers.” You wouldn’t be nearly so clueless about the Packers if you had some actual valid context in which to view them. When in the history of athletic competition has there ever been a sports team as flawlessly, perfectly and impeccably managed as the mythological one you use to condemn the current Packer administration? It’s like criticizing some athlete for not being as strong as Hercules.. never mind that Hercules doesn’t actually exist. Until you get this through your head, you’ll always be a bit of a buffoon.
So flawlessly and perfectly = no superbowl ? Now I get it marpag, thanks for clearing that up…
No, you clearly don’t get it. You obviously realize that no team in history goes to the superbowl every year, and yet you stupidly get all over TT for not going to the superbowl every year.
It’s just a simple case of trolling actually, since no one could truly be that dumb…. right? Or maybe you’ll prove me wrong.
One Super Bowl appearance in 10 years with 2 of the better QB’s to play the game is pretty good, but not worthy of all the blind faith and deification that gets tossed TT’s way.
The criticism of the existence and duration of the holes in the team is warranted.
Who is talking about “blind faith and deification??” Dude, we’re talking about the exact opposite of that. Big T and his other screen name “Archie” are blathering on as he/they customarily do about “grandpa teddy” who is “an assclown” you know, whose “balloon head” is about to explode as a result of overblown ego, who stumbled onto ARod in the draft as a result of blind luck, who would be “nothing without ARod,” whose sexual orientation is questionable, blah, blah, blah…
The idiots talk like that. I don’t advise that you join them. Now, if you want to talk about “holes in he team”, fine, that’s an entirely different matter. Even the impeccably managed Patriots have a few holes, wouldn’t you agree?
Flawless and perfect? There’ll never be one, but I’m not sure I get the reason for the extreme, abstract example to counter an opinion and ‘drive home your point’.
Now impeccably managed? That would be the Patriots. And there’s nothing mythological about them.
2013 backup QB? Yeah that was bad, but how about TT’s decision to go with the immortal combo of McMillian & M.D. Jennings at safety? Now those were two truly awful players who not surprisingly were out of the NFL a year later.
Or how about 2014 and the worst starting inside line backing duo in the league (for only a combined total of $10,000,000 against the cap)?
Do we need to go back to 2012 and the starting LT Marshall Newhouse and Center Jeff Saturday?
Trusting in Ted should not = blinding oneself to roster deficiencies.
At this point there are holes at NT, ILB, and CB. Should be interesting.
Dude. NOT ONE team in the NFL since the early 90’s has gone into a season without at LEAST 2 JAGs (or worse) starting. You can’t pay for top talent at every position and you’re not going to get that lucky with unproven young guys at every position either.
Grandpa Teddy loved Marshall Newhouse and his sister. Jeff Saturday took himself out of the game otherwise he would still be starting center for us. Grandpa Teddy said so…
Ah yes, Newhouse and Saturday. Wasn’t that a wonderful time. One was draft & develop that he wouldn’t give up on and the other, one of his forays into FA, was an old man with nothing left. From what I read at the time, Saturday was MM’s pick – he lobbied TT hard for him. TT should know better than to listen to MM on matters of personnel. MM is probably worse at judging personnel than he is calling plays. Faced wiith the choice between Alex Smith and the best QB on the planet, he chose Alex Smith. Nuff said.
How would you like to be a 49ers fan about now? Borland-the-stud pick now retiring. Harbaugh pretty content up in Michigan?
That shocked me. The 9ers are screwed.
Borland’s retirement also potentially screws the Packers out of the ILB they want in the draft.
I don’t think there is an ILB in this draft worth the 30th pick. I see 13 offensive players that are definitie R1 picks. I see 16 defensive players that are worthy R1 picks. That’s 29, we pick 30. Odds are at least one somebody will surprise or reach and give us our pick at #30. In that 29 I don’t include a single ILB. If TT picks ILB it will be a need pick, again, not a BAP. That’s what you are forced to do as a GM when you don’t plan ahead and leave yourself with gaping holes.
Assumption! Who said anything about picking an ILB in the 1st round? I didn’t. I don’t believe that there is an ILB in this year’s draft who is worth a first round pick and I certainly don’t believe that the 49ers, who have the 15th overall selection in the draft, will use it on an ILB to fill Borland’s shoes. However, they potentially could use pick #46 in the 2nd round to nab the ILB we have our sights on for our pick #62. You are right about the “gaping holes,” though. We may now be forced to make that selection with pick #30 rather than take a DT (Eddie Goldman, for example, if he fell to #30) or a shut-down CB (LSU’s Jalen Collins, for example).
OK. I think the top ILB will go in top 1/2 of R2 so if TT wants one he will need to trade up or down.
On the other side of the coin. If the 49ers panic and reach. That means that there is a 1 more player with extra value for the Packers to pick from.
I don’t see the Niners reaching for an ILB with the 15th pick overall. It is more likely that TT will “panic and reach” for Stephone Anthony with pick #30, thereby losing the chance for Goldman or Collins. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the Niners then use pick #46 to get the guy they really want, Eric Kendricks, and we could have picked Anthony at #62?.
TT doesn’t panic and never has. A lot of people here would wish he would on occasion.
TT reaching. Yes… generally on DL, OL and Safety. On LB… he’s generally been waiting too long to pounce (sans Clay M) and trying to find a diamond in the rough and on the cheap.
You were the first to use the phrase, “panic and reach,” applying it to the 49ers in the hope that they do so to our benefit. Given the way the draft falls, though, it is more likely that TT “panics and reaches” in the 1st round for the ILB he wants, thinking that the Niners might select him early in the 2nd.
Well if I’m looking at the two organizations who are in a panic I’d say that the 49ers are in top billing having suffered two unexpected retirements at LB compared to TT leisurely getting rid of the bozo’s he waited too long to get rid of.
Add in that the 49ers organization looks more like the Oakland Raiders at this point… and you don’t know what the 49ers will do. TT more often than not patiently waits for the guys he wants at his spots or worse trades down hoping to still get that guy and garner more picks. TT is going to go back to his old ways and do just that. He’s got holes to fill on this roster… it’s not like the last few years where it was more quality over quantity. He’ll be going back to his shotgun approach to drafting… the more bullets he has the better off he is on hitting something.
I remember when the 49ers were the juggernaut on the rise and we were sloshing around in their wake. Two years later the 49ers are coming apart at the seams. Poorly run teams have trouble sustaining success. What does that tell you about the Packers?!
When you are dominant for 3 years and don’t win any SBs, you still have to pay your players and as we have seen with Ravens and Pittsburgh, it is tough to do. You have let players go. That is perhaps the greatest part of the Patriot story – they have stayed dominant so long. The only year GB was truly dominant it was knocked out of the playoffs in R1. And the year they won the SB, they barely made the playoffs on a miracle. So GBP hasn’t faced the salary difficulties of a dominant team. SEA will soon. It will be difficult resigning our OL from here on out. It may be tough to re-sign Lacy if he keeps going so well. No probs signing TE, FB, DL, or LB not named CMIII. Hayward & Burnett may or may not be difficult signings. Mostly it will be our OL.
….whom are all under contract for at least the next 2 seasons.
The OL is looking good for the forseeable future. Having Barclay and Tretter fight it out for the 6th man is a GOOD place to be.
I dunno Adam. I think both Tramon and House were WAY overpaid. TT IMHO did the right thing here. Draft a corner in the mid rounds and let Heyward grow into the outside role.
Shields, Heyward, Hyde is not as strong as it was last year, but it’s better than every other starting 3 CBs in the NFCN, and it’s probably still top 1/2 in the league.
ILB and DT remain in greater need of immediate attention.
I don’t disagree. My head tells me Thompson did the right thing. But part of my heart says, “The Packers are the best team in the league. Go all in for 2015. Overpay Tramon, frontload the deal, and cut him loose after this season if he regresses.”
Yes! I agree with you Adam. After the season-ending choke in Seattle, I think Ted, as you put it, should “go all in for 2015.” He owes it to the fans.
One of the big reason why we had that choke in Seattle is Tramon! And when data shows obvious decline in Tramons games, the argument is he pass eye test. well, he did not. Not at the last play of NFCC game. The guy who has his experience would never let open invitation for inside run! Case closed…
Bob McGinn reported on 1/3/15 that for the season Williams allowed only 5 completions greater than 20 yards. In comparison, Shields, our other starting CB, had 9 1/2. As for the TD allowed in the NFC Championship Game, we had 9 players in the box and were blitzing. Tramon had no safety help. All the QB had to do was throw it up in the air away from Tramon. Don’t blame him, blame the defensive call.
Adam, I think the Packers “go all in” every single year under TT. He just goes about his business quietly, secretively but most important, he’s smart and doesn’t make dumbass moves like overpaying for a 32 year old cornerback who’s last play was giving up a td and Seattle winning the NFC Championship game.
The Packers were the best team in the NFL last year. It’s not even a debate. These are all TT’s guys. Every single one except for Peppers were home grown. Every team in the NFL should be copying TT but thankfully there’s only one TT and TT never allows the media to know what he’s really thinking. That’s his greatest asset. His ability to shut his mouth which explains why Favre, a guy who could never shut his mouth, hated him. lol
TT’s teams have made the playoffs almost every year he’s been GM including one super bowl and should of had two if not for two dumbasses names Slocum and Bostick. TT’s teams will be super bowl contenders every year. That’s as good as it gets in my book.
Thompson, like all NFL GMs, makes his share of dumbass moves. Giving Brad Jones a multi-year deal, relying on Jerron McMillian and drafting Brian Brohm are a couple examples.
Yeah Adam, but I do think (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) that Ted is right here. TT is one of, if not THE, best GMs in the business. He’s a little tight with the purse strings for us fans clamoring for improvements in March and April, but he almost always comes through.
He’s had 2 bad years: 2008 and 2013. Both times the season went into the crapper because of bad moves on his part. And 2013 we almost made chicken salad out of ….well….
Why can’t you believe that you are agreeing with me? Do you think I am some schmuck or something? Let me tell you Bearmeat. I’ve covered this team for close to 50 years. I think I am pretty qualified when it comes to my opinions and I’ve rarely been wrong on the things I say. You’re damn right I’m right and Adam is wrong.. clearly.
“covered”? Do you work for the GBPG or JS?? 😀
Nobody left in FA to get excited about so what is TT going to do with all that cap money now – save it for Mike Daniels? Whoppti-doo! That’s a helluva plan. We go into FA with a weak defense and we come out of it with a much weaker defense. Great job TT! Another well executed plan. Personally I liked how Indy played FA. Buffalo is doing well too. Looks like they will land both Shady McCoy and Charles Clay TE (Miami). BUF whipped us this year w/o those guys while we had our CBs. I guess even BUF has passed us by now. Switch QBs w BUF and tehyy would beat us 50-0. Good job TT.
“I liked how Indy played FA”…. of course you would Archie… smh. Indy got an old RB who can’t make his own plays anymore and an older WR who is nothing more than a move-the-chains guy. For MILLIONS on the cap each year. WAY WAY WAY too expensive for replacement level players.
You don’t “go all in” for 1 year. You set up your roster as well as possible and tweak each year. In a 1 game elimination postseason crazy things can and will happen.
The Saints and the Broncs went “all in” for last year. Neither made it as far as GB did and now their cap is in shambles and they’ll suck for YEARS as a result.
I’ll take making the playoffs every year, relying on good drafting and tweaking the roster a bit to set up a sustained run at success and MULTIPLE Lombardis – thank you very much.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Adam, but when you used the phrase, “go all in for 2015,” you didn’t mean that TT should blow out the cap like the Saints or the Broncos. Rather, I think that you meant that money should be used prudently to fill a hole or at least to prevent another one from occurring. Going into free agency, we had holes at DT and ILB. Now we have one at CB. As Archie said, “Good job TT.” For those readers who “trust in Ted,” perhaps he does have a plan to fill at least one of those holes. Personally, I am dubious about that but only time will tell.
All this talk about “hole filing” is making me uncomfortable….
LOL. That reminds me, I’m overdue for a colonoscopy.
“Correct me if I’m wrong, Adam, but when you used the phrase, “go all in for 2015,” you didn’t mean that TT should blow out the cap like the Saints or the Broncos”
Yes!! that’s exactly what Adam meant. Another guy who wants TT to be like Elway and “go for it” as though his way isn’t “going for it”. TT goes for it every single year but does it his way and you know what? It effin works!! Spending money on your own guys instead of someones dressed up trash seems to work.
I guess we have a different interpretation of Adam’s article. I wasn’t that fond of the prospect of re-signing Williams or House for that matter, but coupled with the loss of Rolle, the Pack now has a problem at CB, especially when the defense goes into nickel or dime coverage. A position of strength has now become one of weakness. Retaining either Williams or House would not have blown the cap ala Elway, but would have given some stability to a position that is now in chaos.
Chaos? Come on Nemo. I highly doubt TT is in panic mode over losing Tramon Williams. So if cornerback is now a weakness than I guess TT rolls us his sleeves and tries to make it better. That’s his job.
Every single year it’s roller coaster ride with positions. So is life in the NFL. TT will draft his way out of a weakness. That his strength. He did it two years in a row and he’ll do it again this year.
What he’s not going to do is pay someone similar to Tramon Williams 21 million dollars when he can draft a younger better player for less money. John Elway “went for it” and guess what? He lost. Now his team is effed for who knows how long. Green Bay is sitting pretty thanks to TT.
“Draft his way out of weakness”? Rookies, even good ones like Chicago’s Kyle Fuller or our own Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix (both 1st round draft picks), make rookie mistakes. Or, have you forgotten Seattle’s two point conversion in
the NFC Championship Game? As late as Jan. 3, 2015, Bob McGinn of the Journal-Sentinel
wrote the article, “Packers Defense Transformed by Cornerbacks Coverage,” in
which he noted the depth and experience of our secondary. That depth and experience is needed, not only because of inevitable injuries, but also for different defensive packages in
which there are 5, 6, or 7 secondary players.
A good example of this was our game with New England, a team with better starters at cornerback but which lacked our overall quality and depth whenever it went into nickel or dime packages. Our secondary depth has now fled to Jacksonville and Cleveland.
This is not a choice between John Elway and Ted Thompson, between black or white, right or wrong, us or them. Our GM doesn’t have
to be a spendthrift who gambles the future away with the hope of immediate Super Bowl gratification, or a miser who lessens the chances for next year’s success. There is a middle way. We could have re-signed either House (my personal preference) or Williams without breaking the cap bank. I think that was the point of Adam’s well-written article.
Nemo, the problem is these writers here write this stuff waaaay before they should. Free agency isn’t over with. Everyone here is opinionated on what they want done I understand. We really should be debating this at a later time. Maybe Ted has other players he wants but right now he’s either God or dog shit. lol
Again, it is not a matter of black or white, good or bad, TT as God or as dog shit. It is what it is. TT “dillied” and Rolle was gone. He “dathered” and House and Williams are gone. This is a team sport. It takes time to know what your teammates are doing and where they are when you are in a particular defense. Each has to know how all the others are going to react and each is reacting in fractions of seconds. Many thought it very important to resign Brian Bulaga to retain the continuity of the offensive line. So, too, IMO, it is important to retain the continuity of the secondary. That’s gone now. It will take more than new players, even if they are better players individually, to restore it. It will take time.
Can you explain me one, at least for me, mistery. Jags have largest cap and they can sign on rich contracts any player they want. Why we can n ot see them to be contender? Now, they have House, did they? Do we really see them as contender. If not, why this formnula does not works properly for them? They obviously have better coach, better GM and why they can not become contender? Can yopu pleasse explain me that. OK, not for Jags, Raiders? Browns? Miami? Jets? Buccaneers? Please, can you explain that to me?
Who cares about Indy or Buffalo? We don’t play either of those teams next season. We won’t see Buffalo again for 4 years. Both teams will be very different teams by then. And BTW as long as Aaron Rodgers is standing no team is passing by the Packers. Thanks, Since ’61
How many times do I have to tell you people that TT and MM are egomaniacs. MM’s balloon head was popped after the Seattle debacle. TT’s balloon head continues to swell. Until someone jabs that balloon head with a sharp needle…. “In Ted we Suck” MM finally started reading our posts and listening to our solutions, kudos to MM… Grandpa Ted needs to take these posts seriously so the defense can move forward. He is one stubborn muther trucker. Grandpa Ted, please get the eff out of the way of our defense and let us win damnit…
Well of course they’re egomaniacs. How do you get to that kind of position if you’re not?
Been said a million times over the years……it’s not the House deal or the Williams deal. It’s the SOS every year with Old Ted. It was proven in ’13 the Packers are a one man team. AR goes down & this team maybe, maybe wins 5 games (but probably not) Of all the front 7 guys he’s ever drafted, he’s hit on two play makers…..Daniels & CM. That’s a lot of misses! Going to ride AR into the playoffs for as long as he can & keep coming up just short. He’ll keep signing his ‘fellas” with his pocket full of cap money and put Packer fans through the same routine every Spring…everybody checking PFT on a regular basis to see if he came out of his bat cave 🙂 Pity, because it seems, without recklessly overspending we can fill a need on the front end of the D….For the old timers, as Donovan once said “Might as Well Try and Catch the Wind”
There are no quality outside CBs left in FA. Unless a team releases a quality CB, which is very unlikely at this point because teams have already released their cap problem players, we have to rely on the draft to fix this problem. Drafting a rookie at pick 30 ,who can step in immediately and help, has a low probability. I’m not feeling good about this situation.
And now we will have to concentrate on CB in the draft which hinders our ability to find a quality ILB who can step in right away and help. TT better not let Raji and Guion walk or this mess gets even worse.
Except for 2010, TT just doesn’t seem to have the niche to build a champion defense.
The chicken littles that show up EVERY March in the Packer Blogosphere simply ASTOUND me.
How many teams do you see that “win” in March also “win” in December and January.
I’ll take Ted’s “business as usual and exciting games at the end” approach for $2000 Alex.
Let losers like NE sign the likes of Revis, Browner, and LaFell, what does it ever get them?
I’d much rather get to a Super Bowl once every decade and have cap space to spare than emulate an organization that has won 4 and been to 2 others this Century.
LaFell was garbage before NE picked him up and he’s nothing special after. I think that was NE’s best signing for the long term in the offseason. Do you notice that Revis and Browner are both gone now? NE got lucky to win it all. We should have beaten Seattle and Seattle should have beaten them. For that matter, the Ravens should have beaten them too.
That’s exactly what I mean. NE has a 38 year old QB looking for 1 more title. They threw all their chips into the center and juuuust won it all. I’d say if this season was played 10 times, they win 3. Maybe.
And you talk about long term? NE and GB personify the “get to the dance and crazy crap happens” way to play the NFL game more than any other teams in the past decade.
Your argument implodes on itself quite quickly doesn’t it?
“We should have beaten Seattle and Seattle should have beaten (New England).”
Shoulda, woulda, coulda. The lament of losers everywhere.
The reality is that NE “won” free agency last year and won the Lombardi Trophy. It is also true that
teams that acquire veteran talent in free agency and via trades more often than the Packers do have won the past 4 Super Bowls.
As for the “long term” you are so fond of, the Pack has been to 1 Super Bowl in a decade with 2 Hall of Famers playing QB. NE has been there 3 time in that span and Seattle has been there the past 2 years. Yet, neither team is sitting by idly this offseason.
Wonder why they don’t abide by TT’s rules?
Yeah. NE has been there more. Which is why NE has been the class of the NFL since 2007 and we come in 2nd. Possibly 3rd (PIT getting to 2 SBs).
Your argument that NE “Won” Free Agency is so wrong its’ laughable. The Buccaneers and the Bears “won” in March last year. NE got Revis and gambled (and won) on Browner. How’d the other teams do? That’s what I thought.
Also take into consideration that the AFC East has been a dumpster fire for 2 decades outside of the Patsies and that the AFC in general has been the weaker conference since 2008. GBs path to the super bowl has been harder than any AFC team during that time span.
Tramon’s time as a productive CB will end very soon. He was slipping. How many times did you see him last year and go “What the hell was that Tramon? That’s not the guy I remember”. And it isn’t. If you need statistics instead of your naked eye.
2008-2011 Averaging 4.75 INT a season.
2012-2014 Averaging 2.66 INT a season.
2008-2012 Averaging 58.8 Completions against a season.
2013-2014 Averaging 77 Completions against a season.
So I guess your saying Tramon was way overpaid at $9M in 2014. Could not agree more.
So was Shields.
Ted’s a freak and a homo sexual……but that’s not why he’s a crappy GM
moderator…. the boot is in order here…
Old Ted’s social awkwardness and sexual preferred have nothing to do with football decisions…get a grip Frankie!
How dare you!! This guy just insulted a legend!! I agree with Bearmeat. This calls for automatic suspension!! Suspend this son of a bitch!!
ALTERNATE TITLE FOR THIS ARTICLE: “Will TT and his Packers get punished for refusing to act like complete imbeciles?”
I love the site, and the articles are usually worth reading, but it seems pretty clear that no one in the history of Earth has ever been worse at writing titles than ALLGBP.
Some people’s life goals involve going to medical school, running a marathon, or raising a family. One of my life goals was to use the phrase “dilly-dally” in a blog post headline.
And some people’s goals in life are to be rude online. Mission accomplished Marpag. 😉
Well at least you didn’t insult females like Cory JennerJohn did. lol He’s still in hiding. I honestly can’t wait for his next article. I hope it’s more of the same. lol
Adam, this was not your best column. TT wasn’t tentative nor did he dilly-dally. He set a price for both CB’s and stuck to it. Does any rational human being (of course this excludes Archie) think either of these deals TT should have met? According to PFF Tramon allowed 10 touchdowns in 18 games, including the game-winner in the NFCCG. Opposing quarterbacks had a passer rating of 106.5 when targeting Williams last season, that number had never been higher than 85 in Williams’ first seven seasons. He also allowed completions on 63.6 percent of the passes thrown his way, which also was the highest percentage of his career. House is young and has a lot of upside. He was often injured and besides TT, MM, and DC there were two fine DB coaches evaluating him everyday which went into the decision making. I’ll take the two 4th round comp picks (Over the cap website) and move on.
I agree re Jumal Rolle and I didn’t like losing Damian Ross either. But this is not a perfect science and we’ll have to wait and see what the long term holds for either player. The team kept Goodson on their 53 man roster b/c they must believe in him. They have two CB’s on their PS. And as we saw w/ Shields and last year w/ Fuller on the Bears, CB is one of the positions a rookie can step in and contribute quickly.
Re the $21M cap: $5.8M is needed for rookie contracts (Over the Cap). TT may sign Raji, Kuhn, Guion, Bush, Lattimore or UFA’s like Geno Hayes, Marvin Foster, Barry Cofield et al. These signings plus rookie money would bring the cap below $10M. TT always keeps money in reserve for after June 1st releases, camp or in season additions and contract extensions.
How is not paying stupid money dilly-dallying?
Ding! Ding! Ding! Chicken dinner!
Or again, how does any of this make TT “tentative??”
While it is sad TW is no longer with the team it was the smart thing to do! Williams was on the down slide and would have been a target this year because younger receivers were beating him bad all last year! Time to move on..Not sure why people have no faith in Hayward, he is faster and more athletic than TW and he has better hands! I seen someone say he was to small well he is the same size as TW so not sure about being to small. Bottom line this is what Ted does he drafts develops and gives the player their shot at stardom. This will be Caseys year to show or go.
And when Hayward is on the DL, the back-up plan is Tay Glover-Wright. Seriously now, I’ve heard that this kid has some talent!
I can’t say one way or the other about the young man I never seen him play but Thompson brought him on board for a reason.
While I agree with some of the comments, I don’t think the comments actually address the salient issue – certainly not if the article is viewed as relating solely to CB.
I can’t find a single commenter that thinks TT should have paid Tramon 3yrs. for $21 million. All agree that TT was correct. The author suggests that Tramon might have come back to GB if TT had sweetened his offer earlier. Don’t know what Adam is really means, but perhaps he means that TT should have offered 3 yrs. at $15 million 5 days ago instead of “dilly dallying.” This is speculation and we will never know the answer. Maybe if TT had been more proactive, Tramon would have re-signed. Maybe not. Maybe TT was proactive. I went back to Jeff’s article on this subject, too.
I can only find one commenter (Larry Whitman) that thinks House should have been re-signed for 4 yrs. for $25 million. A couple of others were ambivalent and suggest that House was a gamble to re-sign at those numbers.
So, if we commenters don’t think Tramon or House was worth the money they got and agree that TT should not have signed them at those numbers, what exactly can we fault TT for doing or not doing?
Some of us wanted TT to fill a couple of holes with FAs, not just specifically at CB. TT could have simply signed another CB, but that would have cost perhaps $8 million AAV [16th highest paid CB – L. Webb – makes $8.33 million; the 19th highest is paid $8 million per year average.] The specific player brought in could be debated here, but maybe Ellis at DT, or Housler at TE. I suggested that TT should have said to Raji that his offer is $2.5 mill for 1 yr., you have 24 hours to accept. If not accepted, TT could have signed Knighton, Ellis or some other NT. Get some of the holes filled. There is some value is saying that my offer is only good for the next 24 hours.
I don’t agree with Adam that the salary cap for 2016 is decent. It’s not terrible, though. His link to overthecap shows GB $19 million under the current cap. GB has to sign Daniels, Hayward (who will be $8 million AAV if he shows he can play outside CB), Neal, Perry, & Starks OR their replacements. We might save $8 mill on the cap if Peppers retires, but we have to replace his production. The cap better go up another $10 million.
The biggest casualty IMO caused by losing Tramon is that TT will be hard-pressed to take a luxury pick in this draft.
Reynoldo – good post as usual. I said the same in my earlier post on this article. Losing Tramon diminishes our focus in the draft for picking DLs and ILBs. Now we need to pick a corner that can possibly be a starter versus drafting a CB in the later rounds for depth. My thinking is that TT had to go into this FA season expecting some of these things to happen. A good planning process always includes planning for the worst case scenario and TT has done a consistently good job of planning over the years. Therefore, I am confident that he has a plan for the loss of House and Williams. As for the on going broader discussion about whether TT is a good GM or not, the results prove that he is one of the best GMs in the NFL. The team he has built including his staff, MM and the coaching staff and the on field product has consistently made the playoffs and won their division since 2007. The offensive unit consistently ranks in the top tier of the league in points scored, yards and 1st downs gained. The defensive side has been up and down but until 2014 has dealt with a staggering amount of injuries and player turnover due to injuries. As for winning Super Bowls which is what gets so many bloggers upset about TT he has won one during his tenure. Should we have more? Yes, probably at least one more from 2014. Why didn’t we win the SB in 2014? If you look at it fairly and objectively we lost in Seattle because Rodgers was hurt. Yes, I know injuries are not an excuse but does anyone believe that if Rodgers is 100% we lose that game in Seattle no way. If Rodgers is healthy we win the game and go on to the SB and beat NE. And Rodgers injury is not in TTs control. Just like all the injuries from previous seasons were not in his control. Injuries happen and the team and the fans have to deal with the results. I’ve said it before and I’ll continue to say it. If TTs team stays healthy we’ll win it all. We almost made it last year but Rodgers didn’t stay healthy long enough. The only thing that stops the Packers are themselves and/or their injuries. Thanks, Since ’61
Excellent!! Agree 100%.
My purpose was not to disparage TT. I think he’s a good to very good GM. But I do nitpick (see my post about Wilfork signing w the Texans on an unbelievably team-friendly deal). My regret about Tramon is that this draft is strong in areas that are usually hard to find like edge rusher – DE & OLB, CB, OT, etc., & I, like you, really, really wanted TT to be able to take a “luxury” pick this year. Actually I think GB can “get by” with its current CBs if it improves the D-line or ILB, and I think TT will have the discipline to take a player high at a position that is not considered a “need” area. With Peppers likely gone in 2016, and Neal & Perry being FAs, I wouldn’t be surprised at an OLB, if some one really good is there at # 30 (depends on the how the draft falls). As you say, Time will tell.
Sorry Reynoldo – I did not mean to infer that you disparaged TT. I was just commenting on the broader topic of TT as GM.. I should have either been more clear or submitted a separate comment. My bad. Since ’61
No need. I knew what you meant. Not 1 feather is ruffled. Surprised U felt the need to apologize. I meant that my post was not about TT overall as a GM, but was only about the CB situation & that the vast majority of posters wouldn’t have paid Tramon or House the $ they got. We are in complete accord on the failure to plug holes In FA making hard to draft BPA.
can’t blame TW for taking that contract…no way he is worth that to the Packers…too bad he’s gone, leaves another hole but Ted would never pay that contract and ya can’t blame hiim…too much..
SB Nation mock currently has the Packers taking LSU’s Jalen Collins, a big but raw CB, at pick #30. I’d be on board with that…
Tramon wanted security, not only in the form of more pay, but he wanted to make sure GB couldn’t sign him and then simply cut him next year. Cleveland apparently gave him that security. Giving him $7M/year was too much, especially on a 3 year deal. Two years, maybe, but 3? no way. Smart move. Can’t keep everybody and keep a healthy cap. Letting House walk was also a no brainer at the amount he received from the Jags. Perhaps a little patience on our end would be helpful. Before we all start lauding or destroying people, lets sit tight and see what the team looks like in a few weeks/after the draft. GoPack!
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